Monday 11 June 2012

The health visitor visit.

I've been in a bit of a spin thinking about this post and if I should publish it. I was left feeling upset by my recent Health Visitor's visit - I've tried to just forget it, but I want to know a little more! 


We live in Bromley but on the lewisham border - literally the first road classed at Lewisham, recently we had to change GP's as we were no longer in the catchment area for our preferred GP - who hubby had been with for 30 years and I had built up a level of trust and been through two pregnancies with.


We now fall under Lewisham health care even though we are in Bromley.


I received a letter to say that as we were new to the GP's, Blake needs his 2.5 year check and Meg her 9-12month check, they would be doing a home visit.


Now I've never heard of home visits after the newborn checks so must be something just Lewisham NHS do.


I know my parenting styles don't always follow the conventional methods but I do believe in what I'm doing and that I am a good mum (not perfect, but I do what I feel is my absolute best - BF past 6months, Baby Led Weaning, Co- sleeping, sometimes wearing a sling, organic food, BPA free products, only use artificial pharmaceuticals if I feel it's absolutely necessary, avoid parabens in skin care etc)


Maegan was having a nap, so Blake had his development check first. Blake is bright, he's known numbers up to 10 since he was 18months, can now count to 20, knows his ABC's, that his name starts with B and is a general chatterbox and excellent story teller, one of the things I'm proud of - naming a large number of dinosaurs! - the Health Visitor recommended that Blake needs help with his speech and we should take him to see the drop in speech therapist! My reply was that we do lots of phonics exercises and reading and I'm confident in his speech. Is it common practice to refer all children to a speech therapist? Or has my son got a genuine problem that I can't see? Love is blind and all that.


I'm a little concerned by Blake's current fussy eating but not too worried as his weight is still on the 50th and he's a very happy healthy little boy and almost all nearly 3 year olds go through this stage. She advised vitamin drops - I explained that I would try them as a last resort but I believe in teaching a balanced diet rather than artificial supplements. - she really didn't want to let it go, and repeated that she strongly advises vitamins - that she's seen a number of children in my neighbourhood with rickets! My reply was that we are an outdoor family and I feel the sun provides us with vitamin D and I asked if my son was displaying symptoms of rickets - which of course he isn't.
Is the standard advice really to give artificial vitamin supplements to our children, rather than practicing a good healthy nutritionally balanced lifestyle and regardless of need?


She also advised me that Blake needs another MMR jab as in lewisham they do an extra one "just incase the previous ones fail!"
Anyone else advised to have an extra MMR? there also seems to be conflict over the age of having the MMR2 Preschooler booster.


When it was Maegan's turn, I was advised to give her the BCG - as we live in a neighbourhood with a "high number of infected immigrants!" but they don't give it to Blake! So I can protect one child but not the other!
BCG jabs for under ones only?


She also, and again, not willing to drop it - advised I give vitamin drops to Maegan too!


Maegan was exclusively breastfed until 5.5months and then we went down the baby led weaning route. She still has BF's from me and I plan to do this as long as I can or up to 18 months.
Firstly, they don't advise extended breastfeeding as "it doesn't provide adequate nutrition" and that she recommended introducing a formula, growing up milk!
Since when have they started advising formula over boobie milk? I've never heard of that one before! - she even wrote in Maegan's book that she has formula when she doesn't at all! - I've noted in the book that she's BF.


And they also don't advise BLW I need to make sure I give her lots of textured purees! Maegan has a fantastic sense of adventure when it comes to food and where I can, I buy organic. Now, I'm a fan of BLW even though I know it's not the advised program , I'd recommend it but I also know that BLW doesn't suit every baby and every parent. Surely, if BLW is clearly working - you wouldn't expect to be advised to switch at 11months?


The discussion moved to dental care - where I explained that we see a family dentist together and Blake's last check up was only a month ago with no concerns. I have a few missing teeth - this is from a genetic issue and nothing at all to do with dental hygiene - I can't help but think this was an assumption the Health Visitor made as she asked my son to show her his teeth and went on to say that she would advise switching from the children's tooth paste my dentist is happy with to an adult toothpaste for both children! This is because lewisham has a high rate of tooth decay in children! My children are being judged here purely on their neighbourhood and not their actual dental routine!
Is this a new standard to advise adult toothpaste for babies and toddlers? Even if only a month ago my dentist was happy with my children's oral hygiene?


She looked around the living room and said we should revisit our home safety needs and went on to start asking about the rest of the family. She said she was compiling a brief family tree for their records- when I asked what it was for, I was told that it was for if Social services were ever needed - if I was in "an accident ... or something!"
Anyone else have a health visitor compile a family tree for if social services are needed?


This did not sit well with me, especially after being told to revisit my home safety needs! Was she implying something?


Other points of the meeting included discussing domestic violence which I know are discussed with other health visitors too and she also asked if I was up to date with my smear tests - I'm not sure why but this is something which everyone needs to ask! - right down to the GP's receptionist! While I appreciate the importance of smear tests, I don't see what they have to do with my baby and toddler's development checks and I also believe that a woman should have the right to chose if she does or doesn't partake in having them without being judged.


She also informed me that they have a drop in sexual health clinic - in which I find that  an extremely offensive comment given that we had already discussed I have been married for almost 5 years.


Although I found her to be a pleasant and professional health visitor, I couldn't help but feel disappointed and judged by the visit - even though I'm sure she was just following guidelines.
Which leads me to my next questions ...
Are the guidelines so rigid they take over common sense?


Is there an assumption, and that I conform based purely on the area I live in and not actually on my home and family?
(rickets and poor nutrition, TB, tooth decay, sexual disease, social service needs, poor speech, unsafe home etc)


Has anyone else come across this situation or blogged about their Health Visitor?


Emma in Bromley x





16 comments:

  1. Funnily enough when we moved back to Bromley, I was told that the health visitor would come for a home visit (Kit was 16 months) after her cancelling it twice she said that I should pop into the drop-in instead. I was also told that because we were in Bromley we needed a second MMR jab which he hadn't got because Sussex don't do them. We had a leaflet come through the post for me to assess Kit's progress for his 2.5yrs (which I still have sitting in my bag to post actually - but they haven't chased it 6 months on!). Apart from when I got a call to check that Kit was ok after burning his arm and our trip to A&E I've not been or heard from them since! I loved my health visitor in Beckenham, she was amazing, I've hated every one I've seen since because they've made me feel like a bad mother for doing what I know is best for my son, and after being told to feed Kit cream over breastfeeding because he dropped a little weight (around when he learnt to run actually!) I was done with them!

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  2. Good grief! It sounds to me as though your HV is completely out of touch with individual needs and is just trying to do her job "by the book", which is not always the right way to go about dealing with it. Do you know what I'd do? I'd ignore her. Giving your child vitamin supplements should be a last resort. A second MMR jab in case the 1st one didn't work sounds ridiculous and should most definitely be discussed with a professional away from your surgery. Doing a family tree in case social services are needed sounds like the most stupid and bizarre thing I've ever heard. How dare they make you feel like that. I have no faith in social services and no faith in HV's either and if that woman had come into my home and dictated all this things to me, I'd have moved to a different surgery, complained to the one she was from and demanded an urgent appointment with my GP to clarify the information I had received. I feel sorry you've gone through all that and I think you're absolutely right to question it all. You know what's best for your children, and however you choose to feed them and bring them up is your business. I had a rubbish HV too and in the end I refused to see her. My daughter has autism and the last thing she needed was an interfering old bag trying to tell me I was doing this wrong, that wrong, my daughter's head was too big, she wasn't talking, she shouldn't still be in nappies, and so it went on. I never went back after Amy's diagnosis because she knew nothing of any use.

    CJ x

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  3. Whoa! What a nightmare! I am can tell how this is distressing for you and its good that you wrote a post on it. Its worth sharing this for other other mums and for yourself to get those feelings out.

    I have my son is 18 months and I've been to see our health visitor at the clinic as I like him to be weighted from time to time. Our experience is fine now. However when he was only a few weeks old when I had my first home visit I was having a rough time coping and my health visitor asked me if I was naturally an anxious disposition, to which I said 'yes'. She then wrote that in my book. I felt so hurt and embarrassed that it has taken me all of 16 months to reach out and get help for what I now know to be PND. I did write a post about it months later as the time I was not a blogger.

    I can only hope that you next visit is with someone else and you have a better experience. It's very daunting and you do feel a bit trapped with not many options as this is the service we get with NHS. You feel afraid to talk about it and afraid NOT to talk about it. Not sure what's the answer.

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  4. I live in Ireland now but my first two were born in UK so I have experience of health visitors in both countries - I am not a fan! My next door neighbour was a health visitor; she had no children and obviously not a clue of the practicalities of child rearing as demonstrated when she knocked on my door at 8.30am to ask if my son was ok because she'd heard him crying all night - he was teething. Maybe this she was trying to be pleasant and neighbourly, I could only see it as nosy and intrusive and wondered what she was implying. I was exhausted and had just got him back to bed - I was not the only person who thought this was an odd thing to do.
    I am all for going with parental instincts, following a child not getting too worried about dietary habits unless they are excessively gaining or loosing weight. One health visitor told me I should watch my son's increasing weight but without any suggestions how to do so - he was bf and just starting on solids! It is definitely the new guideline to recommend vit D which I've ignored for all 4 of my children, I don't believe in artificial supplements unless there is an obvious need. My advice is to listen to their advice nod/smile and then do what you feel is right!
    I am appalled by the safety comments how intrusive (I got safety checked after son fell down the stairs but they were pleasant enough) I wonder how good parents can be so badgered yet the bad seem to slip the net?

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  5. It really does sound like she was repeating a spiel by rote rather than applying what should be her professional expertise to families on a case by case basis. I will give my HV her dues, despite trying to send me on a parenting course when I was at the end of my tether with my extremely naughty child, she is pretty sensible and will mention the things that she has to mention to everyone but will quite often say "I know this probably doesn't apply, but....".
    You have every right to ask to see someone else if you want to and also to make a complaint. Your local health board website or your surgery should have the complaints procedure on display & every health board should have a complaints manager to guide you through any queries you have.
    I have no doubt having met you & your little ones that they are perfectly happy, healthy children who have loving parents who only want the best for them and are doing a fantastic job.

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  6. I am going to sort of play the devil's advocate here. I am no huge fan of our health visiting team but let me just say the following

    * in most areas its standard to advise that an adults toothpaste or children's toothpaste with high fluoride content is used. It's certainly standard advice in our PCT. There is no fluoride in most of England's water. So I think she can be forgiven for this one.

    * New Department of Health advice is that ALL children under 3 be given vitamin supplements, regardless of how they are weaned/fed.

    She should have stated this rather than making it sound like a reflection of your parenting.

    She sounds completely in line with current guidelines, but perhaps a bit too rigidly so.

    I wouldn't worry too much about it, and just make your own decisions. Guidelines are as guidelines are, not laws, just suggestions. You know what your doing. Smile and nod :)

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  7. Hiya,
    I've had good and bad experiences. The Health Visiting Team are an optional service and I've known people to opt out. (Though one of them had a visit from a social worker a few weeks after an argument with a HV and telling her where to go, Social Services were informed by HV she was being 'unco-operative!!)
    If they do something 'out of line', you can make a complaint or request another HV. I have a friend who told her HV she had started weaning her 4 month old son and her HV exclaimed "What sort of Mother are you? You've been advised to hold off until he's at least 6 months old!". My friend rushed out in tears but when she'd calmed down, she wrote a letter to complain as it was in front of the whole baby clinic.
    I think the home visits are a fairly 'normal' thing now, but your HV would have problems from me, I breastfed until between 12-25mths with my 5 kids and I was told 'I really should introduce a bottle' (??) I never had, or gave my children vitamins!! What?!! Lol
    I too blw and it's worked just fine with my 5 children! I am one of those mums that follow my instincts (http://memoriessewprecious.wordpress.com/2012/01/12/earth-mother/) and if you feel that your son's speech is fine, then don't be forced into seeing a speech therapist (I'd feel that it might make him anxious/self-conscious)
    ... as for the extra MMR! (Don't even go there!!) I've never heard of having an 'extra' dose! I lived in Westminster and I opted out of the BCG for my children (you can have it done privately when they're older) as 3 babies I knew ended up in hospital having infected BCG sites lanced!! Huge scars on tiny arms! Weigh up the pros and cons and go with your heart.
    We're bombarded with 'health advise'... 'Don't give children adult toothpaste, it contains too much flouride' (do a google on flouride! Shocking!) Which is why children's toothpaste has less flouride. (Our water has it put in before it gets to our taps!)
    I would've been livid too!
    Good that you've blogged about it. :)
    (PS. My last HV Lisa, mother of a 4yr old, tells me that I'm the expert after 5 kids and goes with whatever I want... And listens to me and takes my ideas on board!). :)

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  8. Hiya,
    I've had good and bad experiences. The Health Visiting Team are an optional service and I've known people to opt out. (Though one of them had a visit from a social worker a few weeks after an argument with a HV and telling her where to go, Social Services were informed by HV she was being 'unco-operative!!)
    If they do something 'out of line', you can make a complaint or request another HV. I have a friend who told her HV she had started weaning her 4 month old son and her HV exclaimed "What sort of Mother are you? You've been advised to hold off until he's at least 6 months old!". My friend rushed out in tears but when she'd calmed down, she wrote a letter to complain as it was in front of the whole baby clinic.
    I think the home visits are a fairly 'normal' thing now, but your HV would have problems from me, I breastfed until between 12-25mths with my 5 kids and I was told 'I really should introduce a bottle' (??) I never had, or gave my children vitamins!! What?!! Lol
    I too blw and it's worked just fine with my 5 children! I am one of those mums that follow my instincts (http://memoriessewprecious.wordpress.com/2012/01/12/earth-mother/) and if you feel that your son's speech is fine, then don't be forced into seeing a speech therapist (I'd feel that it might make him anxious/self-conscious)
    ... as for the extra MMR! (Don't even go there!!) I've never heard of having an 'extra' dose! I lived in Westminster and I opted out of the BCG for my children (you can have it done privately when they're older) as 3 babies I knew ended up in hospital having infected BCG sites lanced!! Huge scars on tiny arms! Weigh up the pros and cons and go with your heart.
    We're bombarded with 'health advise'... 'Don't give children adult toothpaste, it contains too much flouride' (do a google on flouride! Shocking!) Which is why children's toothpaste has less flouride. (Our water has it put in before it gets to our taps!)
    I would've been livid too!
    Good that you've blogged about it. :)
    (PS. My last HV Lisa, mother of a 4yr old, tells me that I'm the expert after 5 kids and goes with whatever I want... And listens to me and takes my ideas on board!). :)

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  9. Hiya,
    I've had good and bad experiences. The Health Visiting Team are an optional service and I've known people to opt out. (Though one of them had a visit from a social worker a few weeks after an argument with a HV and telling her where to go, Social Services were informed by HV she was being 'unco-operative!!)
    If they do something 'out of line', you can make a complaint or request another HV. I have a friend who told her HV she had started weaning her 4 month old son and her HV exclaimed "What sort of Mother are you? You've been advised to hold off until he's at least 6 months old!". My friend rushed out in tears but when she'd calmed down, she wrote a letter to complain as it was in front of the whole baby clinic.
    I think the home visits are a fairly 'normal' thing now, but your HV would have problems from me, I breastfed until between 12-25mths with my 5 kids and I was told 'I really should introduce a bottle' (??) I never had, or gave my children vitamins!! What?!! Lol
    I too blw and it's worked just fine with my 5 children! I am one of those mums that follow my instincts (http://memoriessewprecious.wordpress.com/2012/01/12/earth-mother/) and if you feel that your son's speech is fine, then don't be forced into seeing a speech therapist (I'd feel that it might make him anxious/self-conscious)
    ... as for the extra MMR! (Don't even go there!!) I've never heard of having an 'extra' dose! I lived in Westminster and I opted out of the BCG for my children (you can have it done privately when they're older) as 3 babies I knew ended up in hospital having infected BCG sites lanced!! Huge scars on tiny arms! Weigh up the pros and cons and go with your heart.
    We're bombarded with 'health advise'... 'Don't give children adult toothpaste, it contains too much flouride' (do a google on flouride! Shocking!) Which is why children's toothpaste has less flouride. (Our water has it put in before it gets to our taps!)
    I would've been livid too!
    Good that you've blogged about it. :)
    (PS. My last HV Lisa, mother of a 4yr old, tells me that I'm the expert after 5 kids and goes with whatever I want... And listens to me and takes my ideas on board!). :)

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  10. You poor thing I can only think your HV was following every question that she had in her 'book' it sounds like she was 'doing her job' rather than assessing you and your needs. I do remember that I was given leaflets on domestic violence 'should I ever need them'. However I did rather buck the system because I chose to go down the homeopathic route when it came to medication and vaccinations, my son had eczema and my daughter asthma and I refused to give them steroids or treatment 'just in case'. The eczema cleared up in exactly the way the homeopathic books said it would, but the HV wouldn't entertain the fact it was going! Likewise my daughter asthma has never become a stumbling block for her - the one time we went into hospital for her - the consultant admitted that it wasn't good to give children under 12 months steroids! All in all you have to go with your gut reactions, if you are sure that your children are healthy, have sufficient nutrition and you are happy in your home then stay with it, sometimes it does take the courage of your convictions. As to the MMR I refused to give this to any of my children on the grounds that vaccines should not be mixed and secondly the reason they insist on giving it 2 or 3 times is that there is a %age of children who don't take it the 1st time around - so hope that helps - hang in there and stand up for what you believe in Kx

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  11. Thank you everyone - what overwhelming support! Thank you xx

    I've foun some stories shocking, but also good to hear its not all bad! - afterall, I did like one of the HV's from my old surgery!

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  12. Wow. Her attitude was appalling! The one thing I would say as others have is I was recommended to use adult toothpaste (the tiniest smear) and also it's now official advice to give vitamin supplements especially for vitamin D. I was skeptical but there is growing evidence that a shortage of vitamin D doesn't just cause rickets, there are some suggestions it might also be implicated in food allergy and other issues. I have to be honest and say I don't give vitamins every day but I do occasionally.

    As for advising against extended breastfeeding though. That made me see red!!!!

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  13. Hi, just read your post and it does sound like quite a visit. I live nearby in Bellingham and I have heard completely different things from my Health Visitor. From what I read it seems that a lot of what your health visitor said wasn't at all 'NHS guidelines' and more her own opinion! I was particularly alarmed by her comments on formula feeding, which is definitely not government guidelines!

    My Health Visitor went on and on to me about Baby Led Weaning. Luckily this is what I was planning to do anyway, but it just shows, even in the same area Health Visitors have their own opinions and spread them at will!

    I think if you are logically thinking about how you raise your children then as long as your decisions have your childrens best interests at heart it is not for you to be dictated to, or be pressured. However, I do know that MMR has one of the worst immunisation rates in the Country in Lewisham and therefore this would be something they are likely to press home, as id not everyone gets it, it is more likely to spread as there is no 'heard immunity'

    I hope you feel better wit your choices, I think Health Visitors knock confidence out of a lot of people, myself included. I only ever seem to hear bad things about most which is disappointing.

    All the best,

    Jenni

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  14. Hi, just read your post and it does sound like quite a visit. I live nearby in Bellingham and I have heard completely different things from my Health Visitor. From what I read it seems that a lot of what your health visitor said wasn't at all 'NHS guidelines' and more her own opinion! I was particularly alarmed by her comments on formula feeding, which is definitely not government guidelines!

    My Health Visitor went on and on to me about Baby Led Weaning. Luckily this is what I was planning to do anyway, but it just shows, even in the same area Health Visitors have their own opinions and spread them at will!

    I think if you are logically thinking about how you raise your children then as long as your decisions have your childrens best interests at heart it is not for you to be dictated to, or be pressured. However, I do know that MMR has one of the worst immunisation rates in the Country in Lewisham and therefore this would be something they are likely to press home, as id not everyone gets it, it is more likely to spread as there is no 'heard immunity'

    I hope you feel better wit your choices, I think Health Visitors knock confidence out of a lot of people, myself included. I only ever seem to hear bad things about most which is disappointing.

    All the best,

    Jenni

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  15. Hi Emma,

    I realise that this blog is from last year but I was very interested since my daughter has recently experienced a similar thing with her latest baby She is no stranger to Health Visitors since this is her 4th child - but this person has not acted in the usual way. I found out today that the HV concerned has just moved from Lewisham to Bexley! Without revealing her identity - I wonder if you could let me know the first name or initials of your problem HV. If you are uncomfortable with this I will fully understand. As a guy I am not given to browsing these girly blogs by the way but I feel very protective over my daughter and I think that rogue professionals need to be weeded out. Many thanks, Peter. PS In case you're wondering - I found your blog by typing in complaints+health visitor.

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  16. Seems a bit rigid to me! I've been a health visitor since 1982, so I should be 'old school ' if anyone is. But I'm no robot. I will listen and learn from parents as well as children.

    This one sounds less than confident - HVs aren't usually so dogmatic. Do check that this is Real Health Visitor though. Many times, you think you're getting a professional visit, but many districts in England substitute HVs with NNEBs (child carers) or HVAs (HV assistants, may be unqualified, or only qualified as nurses). These do tend to be a bit robotic because they're working to a protocol.

    Some staff tend to push what worked for their own kids, but every child is different, so I prefer to offer advice with some decent research evidence behind it. I love to discuss pros and cons, but I'm not responsible for the child's upbringing, I'm just supporting & informing the parents.

    I have experienced the odd duff reaction from parents and a feeling that my visit hasn't gone down well. It's only been a couple of times, but I would prefer to ask if there's anything wrong and see if they need a change of professional. I admit that very tidy homes and very Stepford Wives, apparently Perfect Mothers tend to scare me a bit. I ask if they'd prefer to see one of my colleagues instead and swop the case if they do fancy a change. I usually end up with getting my colleague's least fave family as a swop, but at least it's a change for everyone.

    PS I was vaccinated against everything available as a child, except BCG because I grew up with TB in my family & some of them died of it. This means I acquired infection related immunity from them. I hope it protects me from some of the drug resistant TB too, but I also have a risk of developing active TB one day. I wish I'd been able to have BCG instead, even though it's not perfect protection.

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Thank you for your comments

Emma x